Curse

lursey · Jul 30, 2011, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

things

I disagree completely, because it is not a focus on pvp which this thread is trying to focusing onto, perhaps you can open another thread in the suggestion forum subjecting something like limited f2p pve+pvp altogether or simply f2p pve if you think the current pvp is pve not actually a pvp, or even f2p the whole gw, which I think the moderator has moved that topic into the off-topic area...

here is the link http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/g...t10488895.html

Infectious · Jul 30, 2011, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

1) I don't think is eventually get better, I think is beating the crap out of the existing pve based pvp...the free market is potentially more gigantic and stronger than what we have now....

2) farming dead hours more with free pvp accounts? how?
if there are 2 groups want to farm, it is impossible already..especially when there are more potential free accounts playing...I think it stops the farming effectively, besides the free accounts are non-trade-able with the paid account, or even unable to obtain any pve items, there is no reason for them to farm for pve items.

3) the people is saying that there will be no people using the free accounts actually play the game, is because they are using the pve eyes to see pvp with lack of confidence.... it can be scary that the epeeness in a closed world has blinded the people to the real world.....just like a rank 15 codex player who farm all his rank through syncing thinking he is the best pvp player...and I puked at this point.

1) People won't be able to get better. In both GvG and HA, they will get HAMMERED, and continously lose. There is no entry/mid level in these formats. Its basically sink or swim, and newbs, unfortunately, will sink.

2) Very easily. Once you in HoH with timer resets for Africa, get everyone to load up 2 more accounts, make 2 more parties, kill zaishen, /resign one team in UW, then the other in HoH.

3) I think people WILL use the free accounts, for about a month before they get sick of getting their arses handed to them on a regular basis. Then will just /uninstall.

Maria The Princess · Jul 30, 2011, 04:18 AM // 04:18

GW is already free to play, the 30$ u spend on it is basically 2 months of a p2p not including the game initial cost

and why i am suggesting this, it is because i think about everything was tried to convert some PVEers into PvPers including pve style rewards, skill unlocks + elite/reg tomes, zaichen rewards, at some point there was a double fame event to lure ppl into HA (not sure if they did it again, was on a break for 3 years).

None of this worked, if it did this thread would not exist.

therefore they need new players with a fresh perspective on things, but you do NOT want the kind of crowd that will be attracted by free pvp arenas. They will be the 13-12 years olds who people will ignore due to immaturity and "noobness" or people who will very soon leave because they dont know the basic mechanics of the game, and PvP will seem impossible to.

Truely, PVE is meant to mentor you about game engine (runes, attributes, insignias, basic movement, skill use, controls, activation, area effects etc ), skills, builds and how they work, before you can start to PvP already knowing how the game engine works. If you dont know how it works, PvP will seem annoying and discouraging. So the mature players who are lf PvP will move on within a week to a 100% pvp game, like fps or dota style maybe.

To make the players want to keep playing you need a "gentle introduction" to begin with, not to just throw them in an arena with experienced old GW players who will expect them to know what there doing. Hell, our experienced GW players dont really welcome the PVErs who already are familiar with mechanics but want to learn the pvp aspect. Lets not kid ourselves here, our pvp community is kinda harsh on newbies

Edit in: the armor system alone takes a bottle of vodka to figure on the spot RIGHT NOW

lursey · Jul 30, 2011, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infectious

1) People won't be able to get better. In both GvG and HA, they will get HAMMERED, and continously lose. There is no entry/mid level in these formats. Its basically sink or swim, and newbs, unfortunately, will sink.

2) Very easily. Once you in HoH with timer resets for Africa, get everyone to load up 2 more accounts, make 2 more parties, kill zaishen, /resign one team in UW, then the other in HoH.

3) I think people WILL use the free accounts, for about a month before they get sick of getting their arses handed to them on a regular basis. Then will just /uninstall.

I am trying to advocate more on opening codex f2p
but anyway I will still argue

1) how do you consider a person is a entry/mid level if there is no rank indicator from the free account?

2) very hard, I will use codex as an example, since it is easier to understand
a) you need 4 real paid accounts,
b) you need 4 free accounts
c) you need no other team fighting you from the free accounts, and the real account
d) you need to win 5 consecutive wins to gain a strongbox
e) you need no other farmer doing the same thing

I think farming is tending to impossible, the dead hour in gw, is not a dead hour in the f2p world

farming is only easy when you can manipulate the accounts, but in the free world, the manipulation is harder than the accounts need to be paid...there is no guarantee you can manipulate the free account more than you can manipulate the paid account

3) arse sick = meaning they are not competitive enough, they are ok to try the 14 days trial pve, and pvp is not for them basically...and they should go away as fast as possible, don't waste the free slot and let other really competitive players to use....

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

GW is already free to play, the 30$ u spend on it is basically 2 months of a p2p not including the game initial cost

and why i am suggesting this, it is because i think about everything was tried to convert some PVEers into PvPers including pve style rewards, skill unlocks + elite/reg tomes, zaichen rewards, at some point there was a double fame event to lure ppl into HA (not sure if they did it again, was on a break for 3 years).

None of this worked, if it did this thread would not exist.

therefore they need new players with a fresh perspective on things, but you do NOT want the kind of crowd that will be attracted by free pvp arenas. They will be the 13-12 years olds who people will ignore due to immaturity and "noobness" or people who will very soon leave because they dont know the basic mechanics of the game, and PvP will seem impossible to.

Truely, PVE is meant to mentor you about game engine (runes, attributes, insignias, basic movement, skill use, controls, activation, area effects etc ), skills, builds and how they work, before you can start to PvP already knowing how the game engine works. If you dont know how it works, PvP will seem annoying and discouraging. So the mature players who are lf PvP will move on within a week to a 100% pvp game, like fps or dota style maybe.

To make the players want to keep playing you need a "gentle introduction" to begin with, not to just throw them in an arena with experienced old GW players who will expect them to know what there doing. Hell, our experienced GW players dont really welcome the PVErs who already are familiar with mechanics but want to learn the pvp aspect. Lets not kid ourselves here, our pvp community is kinda harsh on newbies

Edit in: the armor system alone takes a bottle of vodka to figure on the spot RIGHT NOW

pvp is not gentle.. I am sorry to tell you this

when you are fighting in a war, and other people is killing you, can you tell him to kill you more gently please?

pvp is not immature, it is just the way it is....if you think pvp is immature, meaning you are not a pro war person, or a pro pvp person basically....but pvp is all about war...

so I think you are better off to open another topic of viability of f2p pve....

Missing HB · Jul 30, 2011, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

I think farming is tending to impossible, the dead hour in gw, is not a dead hour in the f2p world

Sure it's true but what you don't get is that there would need to be people playing at anytime... Making the game f2p will work a few days and then it will go back to what it used to be ( the same that happened for strongboxes)..

Actual syncers obviously aren't doing codex during euro evening....And you would really need a big amount of players to make codex at least active during american/asian hours

lursey · Jul 30, 2011, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Sure it's true but what you don't get is that there would need to be people playing at anytime... Making the game f2p will work a few days and then it will go back to what it used to be ( the same that happened for strongboxes)..

Actual syncers obviously aren't doing codex during euro evening....And you would really need a big amount of players to make codex at least active during american/asian hours

thats why it needs to be free out... because

pvp is not something you can use real money to pay the developer to buy a competition of players like you can pay the developers to magically spawn the monster in pve for you to slash and hash....

in pve, ai opponent spouts from the venue, BUT, in pvp, player opponents spouts from players and cause competition, not from the venue like in pve..if there is no player in the venue, there is no competition...

whether players like the venue or not, is not up to 1 or 2 pvers' insight, but from the pvpers...and the free world pvpers has not even been touched or tapped into, you would never know until they are reached.....

moreover, if there are players in the paid world playing gw, there will be more players want to play in the free world...how much more depends on how easily they can reach and stay in the venue.....this is a question depends on the relative skill levels of free and paid pvp population that is at this stage unknown, and how easily they can log-in to the arena physically and economically... but it will still be more than not freeing out at least, because the audience is larger in the free world, and with the least pve distraction.

the strongbox decision was trying to attract players from the already pve population....gods know if they are also a pvper who will play pvp or not..if they have been a pvper, the strongbox decision would not affect them on competitiveness level in pvp at all....meaning, if he/she is already in pvp, the strongbox will not make him/her want to play pvp more.. because he/she is already there...while pver will think the opposite... so there is not really an actual increase in the pvp population....because pvers in pvp, are still pvers want to farm monies, but not kill players... and obviously if the pve cannot kill the existing pvpers to get the monies, it is official that pve skill level is not up to par of the pvper at all...leads to the strongbox update can be harming to the pve economies and affecting pve as a whole...even the same applies to zkeys and whatever attracting pve into pvp update.

cthulhu reborn · Jul 30, 2011, 09:45 AM // 09:45

The problem is that PvP doesn't bring in much money in GW. It's PvE where the cash shop is most effective.

I mean, how many PvP only players would buy storage panes, mercenaries, extra character slots or even make-over packs? I am sure there are some but my feeling is that that's mostly a PvE thing.

So why would Anet give people the part of a game for free (especially since buying the game with all additions is really cheap now), if they can't expect to generate much in the way of sales.

PvP has always been a part of the game and that's good, but it can't generate much income by itself.

And then there is GW2 that is getting closer to release and my guess is that they would prefer to spend their dev hours there rather than a pvp revival in GW1 that doesn't really generate much money.

The argument that pve'ers are not as good at pvp, is also partly the fault of the pvp community. Most pvp'ers only care about winning and therefore want to play with people who are the same. When a pve'er comes in, they are shunned and told l2p....well how can they if nobody wants to take them in their teams?

That's why you will find most pve'ers who want to try it in RA and places like JQ, because there are no team requirements there. Of course with balth faction they can get zkeys and make their "monies". So there's a point to it. Killing players gets boring to them because after doing it 20 times, it's like, so what's next? This happens in PvE also but at least there is more to do. It's just a difference of interest.

And yes why did the pvp'ers leave? I am sure that whatever it was, it had nothing to do with how much the game costs. My view is that PvP'ers are the less stable part of the community in any MMO type game. They are the ones who jump from one game to another more quickly than PvE'ers. So in my view any big online game (MMO), especially after a year or two will have definitely more pve'ers than pvp'ers unles the game is completely based around PvP. I am talking here in the west of course but even in places like Korea you see that even though pvp is important, the players still spend a lot of time grinding instances for gear and such. Not the best example of pve in my view, but pve nonetheless.

I think that for a more long term pvp community you need at least two things and GW1 only really does one of them. First it's skill updates. This is important for balance and for needing to change builds. This keeps the pvp more fair and keeps people thinking about their builds.

Secondly, and this is what's missing, new pvp options need to be brought in, perhaps even at the expense of existing ones. Codex does this a little bit but not remotely enough. Sure, you want a few core things that stay, but there should be random arena's in the sense that these arena's themselves change regularly. In the end pvp is about change or it grows stale.

From the developers point of view there might even be a third point. In order to invest in updating/refreshing pvp every 3-6 months, there should be more options in the cash shop for PvP players. Without the sub model, Anet may want to get revenue from PvP'ers so that they can dedicate that money to making new maps for arena's etc.

Missing HB · Jul 30, 2011, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

And yes why did the pvp'ers leave? I am sure that whatever it was, it had nothing to do with how much the game costs. My view is that PvP'ers are the less stable part of the community in any MMO type game. They are the ones who jump from one game to another more quickly than PvE'ers. So in my view any big online game (MMO), especially after a year or two will have definitely more pve'ers than pvp'ers unles the game is completely based around PvP. I am talking here in the west of course but even in places like Korea you see that even though pvp is important, the players still spend a lot of time grinding instances for gear and such. Not the best example of pve in my view, but pve nonetheless.

Well, when there's nothing new for years, and furthermore less things ( considering removal TA/HB + Codex didn't bring anything)... no wonder , people are going to leave

lursey · Jul 30, 2011, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

The problem is that PvP doesn't bring in much money in GW. It's PvE where the cash shop is most effective.

I mean, how many PvP only players would buy storage panes, mercenaries, extra character slots or even make-over packs? I am sure there are some but my feeling is that that's mostly a PvE thing.

So why would Anet give people the part of a game for free (especially since buying the game with all additions is really cheap now), if they can't expect to generate much in the way of sales.

PvP has always been a part of the game and that's good, but it can't generate much income by itself.

And then there is GW2 that is getting closer to release and my guess is that they would prefer to spend their dev hours there rather than a pvp revival in GW1 that doesn't really generate much money.

The argument that pve'ers are not as good at pvp, is also partly the fault of the pvp community. Most pvp'ers only care about winning and therefore want to play with people who are the same. When a pve'er comes in, they are shunned and told l2p....well how can they if nobody wants to take them in their teams?

That's why you will find most pve'ers who want to try it in RA and places like JQ, because there are no team requirements there. Of course with balth faction they can get zkeys and make their "monies". So there's a point to it. Killing players gets boring to them because after doing it 20 times, it's like, so what's next? This happens in PvE also but at least there is more to do. It's just a difference of interest.

And yes why did the pvp'ers leave? I am sure that whatever it was, it had nothing to do with how much the game costs. My view is that PvP'ers are the less stable part of the community in any MMO type game. They are the ones who jump from one game to another more quickly than PvE'ers. So in my view any big online game (MMO), especially after a year or two will have definitely more pve'ers than pvp'ers unles the game is completely based around PvP. I am talking here in the west of course but even in places like Korea you see that even though pvp is important, the players still spend a lot of time grinding instances for gear and such. Not the best example of pve in my view, but pve nonetheless.

I think that for a more long term pvp community you need at least two things and GW1 only really does one of them. First it's skill updates. This is important for balance and for needing to change builds. This keeps the pvp more fair and keeps people thinking about their builds.

Secondly, and this is what's missing, new pvp options need to be brought in, perhaps even at the expense of existing ones. Codex does this a little bit but not remotely enough. Sure, you want a few core things that stay, but there should be random arena's in the sense that these arena's themselves change regularly. In the end pvp is about change or it grows stale.

From the developers point of view there might even be a third point. In order to invest in updating/refreshing pvp every 3-6 months, there should be more options in the cash shop for PvP players. Without the sub model, Anet may want to get revenue from PvP'ers so that they can dedicate that money to making new maps for arena's etc.

pvp does go stale when there is not much update of skill, however you can see even in codex there is a daily update of skills, it is still not really populated, so it is only partly about staleness of the skill.. but more on the population itself..

pvp works only when there are enough dynamics happening within the players themselves, but once that dynamics is not reached through whatever reasons, such as staleness+pve flooding+dumbing down the format+decreasing competitiveness+little population, the population will continue to decline....

thats why you see in korea, they actually pay players to play starcraft pvp... its being used to fuel that dynamics..it works really well...and they earn money from advertisement, sponsorship, gambling, etc. to fuel that money...just like football, basketball and all other sports.

moreover...why I am for the open of codex arena f2p.. because it is less competitive than HA/gvg, but competitive enough for pvp entrants to stay...free pvp player will then have a reason to buy the full blown higher competitive version of pvp... and all the other skills packs, item packs etc....

however pvp players will never consider to pay to play at first that is buying the "pvp access kits" before considering buying the "skill/item packs" when the venue and players are not competitive enough....i.e. once you open the pvp access kits f2p, the competition may draw them to buy the skill/item packs more frequently.

god knows if many real pvp players will buy costumes/new hero skins like in lol...perhaps they will or they will not.. as these are only a bonus to them, and does not increase their competitiveness in pvp.......but earning money from pvp should not be the first major aim of anet ... you need that pvp population before you can squeeze money out from them...it not like in pve that you can squeeze them whenever the code creation is good enough...

PS: population is an indicator of competitiveness of a pvp arena, take all organised arena as example, gvg/HA are more populated than in CA, even ca is so much easier to form a 4v4 group...it is because the competitiveness of ca is lessor.

cthulhu reborn · Jul 30, 2011, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

pvp does go stale when there is not much update of skill, however you can see even in codex there is a daily update of skills, it is still not really populated, so it is only partly about staleness of the skill.. but more on the population itself..

pvp works only when there are enough dynamics happening within the players themselves, but once that dynamics is not reached through whatever reasons, such as staleness+pve flooding+dumbing down the format+decreasing competitiveness+little population, the population will continue to decline....

thats why you see in korea, they actually pay players to play starcraft pvp... its being used to fuel that dynamics..it works really well...and they earn money from advertisement, sponsorship, gambling, etc. to fuel that money...just like football, basketball and all other sports.

moreover...why I am for the open of codex arena f2p.. because it is less competitive than HA/gvg, but competitive enough for pvp entrants to stay...free pvp player will then have a reason to buy the full blown version of higher competitive version of pvp... and all the other skills packs, item packs etc....

however pvp players will never consider to pay to play at first that is buying the "pvp access kits" before considering buying the "skill/item packs" when the venue is not competitive enough....i.e. once you open the pvp access kits f2p, the competition may draw them to buy the skill/item packs more frequently.

god knows if many real pvp players will buy costumes/new hero skins like in lol...perhaps they will or they will not.. as these are only a bonus to them, and does not increase their competitiveness in pvp.......but earning money from pvp should not be the first major aim of anet ... you need that pvp population before you can squeeze money out from them...it not like in pve that you can squeeze them whenever the code creation is good enough...

PS: population is an indicator of competitiveness of a pvp arena, take all organised arena as example, gvg/HA are more populated than in CA, even ca is so much easier to form a 4v4 group...it is because the competitiveness of ca is lessor.

Well, you misunderstand me about Codex. It does give some changes because you can use different skills because you are limited to certain skills but that is not the same as skill updates/balancing. Everytime a skill gets nerfed or buffed there is an uproar and people have to rethink some of their builds.

Codex is a way of take an arena and giving it different circumstances. As I stated it is too limited in what it does. What would be preferable is different maps and not having all maps available at the same time and new ones coming out regularly. A game like Unreal Tournament was great because of all the maps and people making more maps themselves. It kept people going for a long time. Also different play modes like CTF and instagib etc.

What I also meant is that there is no point in making parts of PvP available as f2p because all it would do is perhaps add more pvp only players. This may sound nice to you as a competitive pvp'er but it only brings more costs and less revenue for Anet.

The game simply mostly thrives on pve'ers as any MMO does that isn't focused completely on PvP. PvE is where the money is in the long term...unless certain things are changed in the game, which I don't think will be done for GW1.

My view remains that a company would not do anything that represents more costs and no additional revenue. There has to be a financial reason for them to do this. Look at what's mostly added to the game in the last year or two? They do their best to keep pvp balanced but beyond that it's all pve. Why? Because that's where the money is.

lursey · Jul 30, 2011, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Well, you misunderstand me about Codex. It does give some changes because you can use different skills because you are limited to certain skills but that is not the same as skill updates/balancing. Everytime a skill gets nerfed or buffed there is an uproar and people have to rethink some of their builds.

Codex is a way of take an arena and giving it different circumstances. As I stated it is too limited in what it does. What would be preferable is different maps and not having all maps available at the same time and new ones coming out regularly. A game like Unreal Tournament was great because of all the maps and people making more maps themselves. It kept people going for a long time. Also different play modes like CTF and instagib etc.

What I also meant is that there is no point in making parts of PvP available as f2p because all it would do is perhaps add more pvp only players. This may sound nice to you as a competitive pvp'er but it only brings more costs and less revenue for Anet.

The game simply mostly thrives on pve'ers as any MMO does that isn't focused completely on PvP. PvE is where the money is in the long term...unless certain things are changed in the game, which I don't think will be done for GW1.

My view remains that a company would not do anything that represents more costs and no additional revenue. There has to be a financial reason for them to do this. Look at what's mostly added to the game in the last year or two? They do their best to keep pvp balanced but beyond that it's all pve. Why? Because that's where the money is.

and now they are trying to make gw2 pvp?...I am scared for them tbh...

nevertheless, there is a potential that if they opened codex f2p with limited access, anet may able to sells their pvp access kit, items/skill packs more..because these all can increase competitiveness which pvper needs...or may even give gw1 more pve publicity potential...which cause them to buy gw1.

Besides the pvp now is not always full, meaning their server is not up to their voltage.. I don't feel their cost will be sharply increased if the limited f2p codex ups the server load a bit, which can result in increase in sales of skill and item packs from the free world market for just a bit of effort.

so these are the answers to the anet economical concern.....and certainly these are all also up to their decision, and I hope they can see/try it...

if it is really that necessary, more greed can be squeezed from codex is, you can do a pay to reroll the daily skill set....eg. if you think the daily skill cycle is too stale/ too not suitable/not your style, you can use real money maybe $1 to buy a token, gathered 5-8 tokens from any 1-8 players in the arena and reroll that daily skill set, shorten the cycle tme or something like that to try to squeeze money out from pvp players who want that competitiveness.....but you can still keep the daily skill cycle, or make it a skill cycle change 2-3 days a time, and not able to use token too many times within a period say 5-6 hours to keep a level of competition....but I don't think that that is necessary, and anet is not that kind of selfish I suppose...

Maria The Princess · Jul 30, 2011, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

pvp is not gentle.. I am sorry to tell you this

when you are fighting in a war, and other people is killing you, can you tell him to kill you more gently please?

pvp is not immature, it is just the way it is....if you think pvp is immature, meaning you are not a pro war person, or a pro pvp person basically....but pvp is all about war...

so I think you are better off to open another topic of viability of f2p pve....

I think youre missing the general point i'm trying to transmit. Stop telling me to open another topic about free PVE, what I post belongs to the topic here, however you need to look at the OP idea and at my idea together with an open mind. Also, please dont "split hairs" in my post, keep on the "central" subject. the word "gentle " was used for a different context then actual softness and tenderness. I believe were all grown up here and can catch on those things. Also, my idea is not to recruit more people for PVE, it is to recruit more people in general.

I agree PVP is not gentle, however when you start a brand new game, doesn't matter what it is and what kind of person you are, you need some kind of introduction and training before you can actually PLAY the game. Thats how it used to be planned. PvP here reminds me of Chess allot more then that "war" you speak of. You cant just sit down and start playing chess vs other people without even knowing the rules and how each piece moves. You need to learn about movement, roles on the board and get a little bit of practice before you can face another player.

this is what PVE was initially meant for. There already is enough people PVEing, and with Heroes nobody even needs a party anymore. However, what OP is offering is a short term fix, like a bandaid on a gunshot. Those people who will try to the free PVP, will quit very fast and the PVP scene will go back to what it exactly is, maybe it will gain a few people but not enough to make an impact.

If you dont use a "quick fix" and give the newly recruited mass of players some time to look around and try things, learn about the game in general, chances are those players will stay in Guild Wars, and it would be up to them to find what they like doing. Also chances are they will drag their freinds along, for reasons i mentioned in my previous posts.

Something that could be twitched in my idea (free prophecies + core skills) could be that when that FRee account player goes to a PvP arena all professions from all chapters (including all skills) are available, but only for PvP arena. When he would go back to PVE world he again would be limited to all core.

What do you think about it that way?

Irrelevant history lesson: Later on Anet saw that allot more people like to pVE and the next updates turned this game more into a PVE oriented game to cater to the likes of the majority

lursey · Jul 30, 2011, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

What do you think about it that way?

Irrelevant history lesson: Later on Anet saw that allot more people like to pVE and the next updates turned this game more into a PVE oriented game to cater to the likes of the majority

that's what I have been perceiving from the history..so I want something doesn't related to pve at most, but more to pvp as a whole.. and codex arena is a choice with all these right factors

ie... a not so competitive pvp...but you can still learn the skills day by day from each daily skill change...

take dota as example...no one will teach you how to use different skills from each heroes at first...players go to website to check their heroes skill and think out the stratgy initially, only till the era of lol.. there is a tutorial on how to click on the ground to move...that most player will press the skip button

I guess the zaishen challenge http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zaishen_Challenge can be used for that purpose...related to the least human form of pvp......but still relevant...

however your idea of opening prophecies pve f2p... is getting into the realm of absurd.. because there is no player dynamics force forcing them to buy the micro-transaction from the store apart from your self-liking to the code creation...this is why micro-transaction in pvp that creates competitiveness like paying to reroll daily skill set in codex, paying to switch Fluxes, etc., will lead to more income than the one in pve where you can buy a nice costume and finish... that is how arcade street fighting earn all these pvp money day by day...

I mean if you really want to open a f2p pve area with pve factors more than pvp not like the zaishen challenge...they can simply open pre-searing f2p...and have that promotional effect already from f2p prophecies..and they still have a reason to buy the full-blown prophecies campaign...but last I feel pre-searing doesn't suffer a population problem.. opening that f2p may harm the pve community, that I don't at all want to touch.....

Artisan Archer · Jul 31, 2011, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

this is why micro-transaction in pvp that creates competitiveness like paying to reroll daily skill set in codex, paying to switch Fluxes, etc., will lead to more income than the one in pve where you can buy a nice costume and finish... that is how arcade street fighting earn all these pvp money day by day...

That is a terrible idea f2p = good, pay2win = bad. And capcom doesn't make money off paying for matches, not even in the arcades (money goes to arcade owners). They make money from the PC and console version from selling copies and offering things like costumes which can be bought from the ingame store (a la guild wars).

tbf, the only thing you could ask money for in gw is (big) balance updates (DLC; DownLoadable Content), but because the community is kinda small right now, it would divide them since not everyone will want to buy the patch, if they're off the quality they have been as of late...

Although, if anet would decided to do something like this;

Release a standalone patch that would actually solve the majority of the PvP problems (ie extensive skill updates), makes PvP Free2Play and UAX on start, make it free for people who own all 3 campaigns + eotn but also let people buy it as a standalone game ie Guild Wars; PvP. It could cost around 10-15 euros and I bet with the publicity of releasing something like this (most people still remember GW as having THE BEST pvp in the MMO) market) you would make money and totally revitalize the PvP community. It would probably the best thing that ever happenend to guild wars, (depending on the quality of the skill update ofc).

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

That is a terrible idea f2p = good, pay2win = bad. And capcom doesn't make money off paying for matches, not even in the arcades (money goes to arcade owners). They make money from the PC and console version from selling copies and offering things like costumes which can be bought from the ingame store (a la guild wars).

tbf, the only thing you could ask money for in gw is (big) balance updates (DLC; DownLoadable Content), but because the community is kinda small right now, it would divide them since not everyone will want to buy the patch, if they're off the quality they have been as of late...

Although, if anet would decided to do something like this; Release a balance patch that would actually solve the majority of the PvP problems, I'm quite sure the entire PvP community would be willing to pay for that.

it is not so much pay2win when you speed up the daily skill cycle, or rerolling the flux if you cannot do that too often in a given period, because rerolling skills and flux can be random, making players still have time to adapt the situation

just like will it be having a big difference if the daily skill cycle change from every 24 hours, to every 6 hours... there won't be much pay2win factor...and other players can still adapt to it.. it is still competitive..

you ask to pay for speeding up a skill update, is actually the same concept of speeding up the daily skill cycle through paying...it has little effect on the competitiveness but enough to ask for a price, as long as there is still update of skills and daily cycle without the need of paying.... and also depends on the price, greed, and how necessarily is anet.

pay to change a character in arcade street fighter...is how arcade owner earn that pvp money...so to motivating them to buy the arcade from the developer...

Artisan Archer · Jul 31, 2011, 07:28 AM // 07:28

^quoted before the edit.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

^quoted before the edit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

Release a standalone patch that would actually solve the majority of the PvP problems (ie extensive skill updates), makes PvP Free2Play and UAX on start, make it free for people who own all 3 campaigns + eotn but also let people buy it as a standalone game ie Guild Wars; PvP. It could cost around 10-15 euros and I bet with the publicity of releasing something like this (most people still remember GW as having THE BEST pvp in the MMO) market) you would make money and totally revitalize the PvP community. It would probably the best thing that ever happenend to guild wars, (depending on the quality of the skill update ofc).

if pvp is f2p, UAx on starts, why would anyone still buy guildwars;pvp for 10-15 euros?? does it make it becomes a donation?

and besides, the quality of a skill update is really subjective....

Artisan Archer · Jul 31, 2011, 09:01 AM // 09:01

I actually ment make it a one time purchase with free2play. My bad for the confusion.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

I actually ment make it a one time purchase with free2play. My bad for the confusion.

then there is no difference to now.. just you want a price drop for pvp altogether......and when you need a one time purchase.. it is not a "free2play" anymore

I had discussed before...make free limited pvp access, can unlock skill/items through faction..absolutely no price...is a better option.. but remains item/skill unlock pack price, if someone may want to hasten the unlock process through purchase... or buying an unlimted pvp access.

Artisan Archer · Jul 31, 2011, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Yes, because anet is not going to give their game away for free. 10-15 euros is a fair price and could possibly draw in alot of people that are curious about gw's pvp. If you'd make pvp free right now, it would do nothing positive at all, the balance is still ass and having to unlock skills/item in RA (which is even more ass) will put people off before even making it to GvG or HA, where the fun is at.
I dare you to play on a new account and try to unlock skills/items for let's say all the meta ele builds. Have fun grinding RA for 2 weeks before actually being able to play what you wanted to play. Make everything UAX if you buy a pvp account, drop the price to 15 euros maximum and PROMOTE THIS. There's alot of people out there that have heard about gw's pvp (it IS famous) but who's gonna pay 50 euros (campaigns plus skill packs) for only 10% of a 6 year old game they may or may not enjoy. The price/quality balance is completely out of whack.

If they do something like this it's gonna make them look real good as a company (which is good for gw2 sales) and it will make them money aswell. It does require effort though. The community has been trying so hard to get GW PvP attractive again (commentaries, live streams, tournaments with real prizes, GvG workshops) it's time ANet steps in.